Heaven or Hell?

May 18, 2024

Savannah and Brandon Hudson are siblings, best friends, and the sparkly pair at the helm of LA’s spunky alt-pop duo Between Friends. Their debut album, I Love My Girl, She’s My Boy, out today, is more than just a collection of tracks; it's a chronicle of love, loss, self-discovery, and the complexities of relationships.

We called up the duo ahead of their release to get down to the nitty-gritty of all that went into their very first longform record. From capturing raw moments in the studio to the evolution of their perspectives on love, the two artists share the personal experiences that shaped their music. Savannah and Brandon impart wisdom on how to navigate the very real trials of love and relationships in our technology-driven age where the hyperreal and simulation often overwhelms genuine connection.

Let’s start with what’s been going on with you two the last couple of years.

Brandon Hudson– Savannah and I have both been helpless lovers. We've fallen into new romantic situations very often, since we were like 16. But it never really translated over to our work. There was always this separation between our lives and the people that we would date– and the stories we told in our music. It's never been directly like, "Oh this happened to me in my relationship and I'm gonna fucking write about it."

We were always making up stories for songs and that was always really fun. Musically, with Between Friends, we're very fortunate to live in this world that we've created for ourselves where there isn't really a limit or a box that we’re sort of pinned in. If you listen to our discography, we go all over the place.

Savannah Hudson– In a way, that's been a blessing in disguise because with this album we felt like we can really do anything. "We’ve done a mixtape, we’ve done an EP, we’ve done another EP, and they’re all drastically different, so what’s next?" This album was an open field to play in and that's when we decided to start writing about what was actually happening in our lives.

BH– But also, since we started Between Friends, we've been terrified of the idea of making our first album. We never wanted to do it and have it be incorrect.

SH– It was a terrifying leap. The stars aligned, our writing aligned, and it was in that moment of our first session where we looked at each other and said, “This is the album. We're making an album.” And then every session, we’d just say that back and forth to each other. There were no plans on doing it until we made “Bruise” and a couple other songs.

BH– Sav and I kind of looked at each other and said, “Wait, I feel like the subject matter has revealed something that we haven't done yet.” At first, we both felt super unsure, which is what made us realize this was the album. Because if we made something that we were comfortable with, I don’t know if it would have ended up being our album. This entire process, we both felt suspended in deep water, unable to touch the bottom and going for it.

I feel like the best things emerge from that feeling of uncertainty. What were some of the experiences that arose during the album’s creation?

SH– We filmed pretty much the entire process of us making the album on our co-producer Luca’s laptop.

BH– We have like 16 hours of footage. The other day she came over and we took a moment to acknowledge and look through the footage and we kept looking at each other being like, “I blacked out when we made this.” It was like we took everything inside of us and put it on the table. When we started making the album last July, I was getting out of a pretty toxic situation.

SH– It was bad. His feelings became the focal point, and I was there to help get them out, saying, “We’re going to take all of these feelings and write them down.”

BH– I'm super grateful for the process. Rewatching the videos, you could see what we were going through– it was almost like therapy in a way. I was getting out of something unhealthy, Savannah was getting out of a situation that was pretty toxic for her as well.

Did your perspective on love and relationships shift since finalizing the album?

BH– Since completing this album, I'm a completely different person when it comes to love and relationships.

SH– I was just telling him yesterday that we've grown up so much with this album. It felt cathartic to release all of that. I feel like we’re clearer-headed with our intentions now.

BH– We’ve been working on this project for over a year now. We started the album last July and when we finished the process, when we got everything off our chests, we moved houses, I got a new computer. We left all of these things behind.

SH– It wasn’t even intentional– it was like the universe. The album took so much out of us that we wanted a fresh start. We’re not going to do that with every album, but after making this record, the timing was right on a lot of life decisions. It was very impactful for us.

Do you believe in fate?

BH– I mean totally, I even believe in relationship karma.

SH– That’s why we try to be kind all the time, focus on our vision and our goals, and keep people that match those expectations close.

BH– It’s fun for us to finally talk about this project because it's just been our little secret for a year.

Fourteen valuable lessons on love from BETWEEN FRIENDS:

Stalker (Don’t stalk your ex on the internet)

SH– Stalker is about unhealthy obsessions and online relationships.

BH– And we wanted to dramatize the idea by making it feel like a slasher film.

SH– Sometimes the internet can be that hostile. It can feel like you’re actually in danger in how people can see everything you do.

BH– We knew it was the first song for the project. I’m so sick of people starting an album with some ambient intro. Some floaty thing that leads you into the first song. I didn’t want that. I wanted to shock people.

SH– Oh yeah, I've never screamed into a microphone before and we did that for like six hours when making this.

BH– We were listening to a lot of doo-wop. Doo-wop is what comes to mind when Sav and I think about love and relationships, so we were listening to that all the time. For the first draft of the album, I had these doo-wop samples from records that we love and they flow seamlessly into the next song. We wanted it to feel like listening to a love radio station playing those sexy hits and shit.

I had all of that tied together, but we couldn’t clear any of the samples because, you know, it’s the first album. We’re not on a Kanye West budget. But that was the biggest blessing in disguise. We ended up spending a day making our own samples, sort of like our own doo-wop station, paying homage to something we’ve always associated with love and relationships, especially because of our parents. We grew up listening to so much music with them, I thought it was necessary for the album.

Bruise (Don’t chase after love)

BH– "Bruise" is physically chasing after someone and continuously trying to get something that they can’t offer me in such a light-hearted way. Word of advice, don't do that! We were listening to a lot of ‘90s, early 2000s bands, which became the inspiration for that track.

Haircut (Don’t alter your appearance for someone else)

BH– I remember a really emotional day in the studio when we were working on the song “Haircut” and agreed that it was a beautiful song about being the best for someone, but the more I thought about it, I was like, “Wait, you’re in a toxic relationship. You’re talking about changing yourself for somebody.”

SH– At first, I thought it was the sweetest song and was excited to show the person I was dating at the time. But everyone I played the song to was like, “Yo, this is not a love song.”

BH– When Bakar hopped on the song, it added a new perspective and transformed it completely. Sav and him just went back and forth, basically singing a love song to each other, which is awesome. When it came to us, the process was super cathartic. Getting it out there was almost like a release.

Lotto (You never know what you’re going to get)

SH– “Lotto” is about being in a relationship that’s really inconsistent, littered with ups and downs. One day it’s so good, the next, you don’t know where you stand. It’s similar to “Bruise” where you’re seeking something from someone who’s incapable of giving you what you need.

Sorry (There’s two sides to every story)

SH– We were listening through voicemails from our exes when making the album and for this song, we tried to put ourselves in the shoes of someone listening to an angry voicemail and not knowing what else to say other than like, ‘Uh… sorry?’

BH– That whole, ‘I hope you’re OK, bye’ thing is really such a gen-z way to end that.

BH– I thought the funniest part was scoring this aggressive voicemail over this soft instrumental. There’s something so ironic about it.

What’s Up (Fuck it!)

SH– The transition from “Sorry” to “What’s Up” is kind of like ‘fuck it.’ You end this voicemail and you’re like, “Alright, I’m going to do this because I feel happy right now.” It’s definitely one of the high points of the record– because it is such a happy song.

BH– It’s about really wanting someone.

SH– It’s a lot like a new beginning– meeting someone that you really fuck with and just wanting to talk to them, so you hit them up to see what they’re doing. It’s like, we’re finally feeling good after being stalked, being bruised, cutting our fucking hair. This is cool. This is nice.

BH– When starting something new after a toxic situation, there’s always those lingering feelings, asking yourself, “Am I repeating the same cycles? Is this actually different?” I think that’s something you can hear in “What’s Up,” that lingering obsession that you should probably leave behind.

SH– And it seems like we do but even after that track, we still fall into something fucked up.

Gross (“This is about you”)

SH– “Gross” is the culmination of those feelings. It’s a personally addressed message.

BH– It’s the only time in the album when we are speaking directly to whatever situation we were in.

SH– I remember the day that we wrote that, Brandon just kept playing the guitar on loop, and I was like “I wanna write something like this.” So I just started singing as if I was talking directly to my ex, or the person I was dating at the time. It’s the kind of song you listen to and by the end, are like, “Fuck– this is about me.” There's something scary about that personally addressed sort of note.

Redlight (Your ex might’ve moved on too)

SH– This was one of the first days we worked with our co-producer, Luca. She and I were already at the studio and Brandon came in late – disheveled, super pale, and weird-looking. So obviously we’re asking “What the fuck just happened?” And he was like, “I saw her. I saw her on the way to the studio and she was with somebody else. They knew I was at the stoplight and they didn’t even fucking look at me.” He had just gotten out of a big relationship two weeks before, so as friends, we were in that healing process with him. I looked at him and said, “I am writing this. I am fucking writing this.” That was a very emotional day for him. It was fun to challenge myself as a writer too, because I was like, “I know how you’re feeling and I know that it’s too much to talk about right now, but I can do it.”

BH– And the coolest thing about this song is that we did it with Touchdown – a fucking generational voice – I love him so much. Our day in the studio was so spectacular, you know? We align so well because we’re all these new kids on the block – we make great art.

BH– It’s really fun because his perspective is from the opposite end, which I think is so cool. It completes the story for me.

SH– Touchdown’s saying that the invasiveness of seeing someone around is not OK. When we got in the studio with him, we had already written a second verse. So I printed out the lyrics and gave them to him and was liie, “You can do whatever you want with this. This is the story, get to know it and get to know the feeling.” But he was like, “Oh, I got it. I’m gonna take it in this direction and give depth to different sides and complete the story.” At the end he’s saying, “You can erase it, you can erase me if that’s what you’d like. I’d rather not exist, I’d rather you not exist. I think this person isn’t around anymore.”

Smiley (There’s always a new beginning)

BH– Smiley is about new beginnings– something new.

SH– There’s nothing about that song that has anything other than the innocence and healthiness of caring about somebody for the first time.

BH– Based on the lyrics, you can kind of tell that we’re singing about somebody that we’ve known and somebody that’s our friend.

SH– And you can tell by the sort of playfulness and the innocence of noticing little details about somebody. You’re there with these blossoming feelings, where you’re uncertain whether you’re in love with someone or if you just care about them. It’s so many different feelings and I love it coming after “Redlight”, because you have these low points…

BH– And then Smiley’s like this. That’s why we like the radio changes at the beginning. It's like you're switching it off and now you're in this new atmosphere of goodness. And it feels great in it. It's named "Smiley" for a reason, right.

SH– I love that it comes before "Self-destruct" because I feel like every time you get a new beginning, it always ends with you fucking it up. It's an interesting contrast to “Self-destruct”.

Self-destruct (Deal with your insecurities but also, be kind to yourself)

SH– Self-destruct was my most emotional day in the studio. It’s because those new emotions of happiness and good feelings were budding, and I was like, “I’m gonna fuck it up.” That’s the thing to know about Self-destruct– it’s not over in that song. That’s you going home and being so self-critical and over-analyzing every move that you've made and every mistake that you've made in the past. It’s you being afraid of transmitting all of that into a new thing, but also not trusting yourself to like having a clear head. I find something good and I'm like, “I'm just gonna walk away, I'm just gonna walk away from this because I'm terrified of it.” That’s definitely the power ballad of our lives. I cried a lot making it. It feels like maybe a lot of people will listen to it and be like, “I’ve been there.”

BH– You can’t start these new chapters, unless you’re really clear– or else you’re gonna be running on empty hence the next track.

Running on Empty (Give your brain a break)

BH– Running on empty is the palate cleanser of the album. I liked the album when we were finishing it, it felt like it was all there. But I remember listening to it and being like, “We need something small that feels like we’re at a restaurant and they’re bringing out this little cleanser sort of thing.” I remember we had been in the studio every day from like noon to 2 or 3 am, and we were exhausted. We had all these emotions that we were spilling all day, and by the time you get all of that shit off your chest, you feel like this ugly puddle. We just needed a break from what we were working on, so we just started playing around. We had to remind ourselves why we love it.

SH– And it’s healthy to give your brain a break and just be on low battery. It's ok to have a low battery like that.

BH– So it's funny, “Running on Empty” is literally us talking to ourselves and reminding ourselves like we're alright. Everything's cool, all good. We had so much fun doing it that it literally gave us that rush of dopamine that we needed to get through the last half of the album emotionally. And I think that as a listener, as much as albums may feel like a bunch of songs put together, this one is one where you can tell it’s chronological, and that there's a reason why everything is where it is. That that song is there to sort of just kind of pick up so that we can get through.

Sloppy Stella (Don’t date the same girl as your homie)

BH– That was our good friend that we both had a kind of romantic thing with.

SH– She didn’t know which one I was– I’m super straight. It was just like, “Whoa, what’s going on?” And then, in the next moment, he was telling me the same thing, and I was too afraid to tell him that similar things happened to me, because I wasn’t down for it but he was, so I was like, “Cool.”

BH– So we named her Sloppy.

SH– She went for the sibs. Don’t date the same girls as your homie!

BH– It sounds so strange, but she didn’t know which one was which.

That's so weird.

BB (It’s ok to think about somebody even if you know it wasn’t right)

BH– It’s about wanting to try again.

SH– Knowing that something is destined for failure. It’s like, when you end a relationship, you know that it was good that you ended it, but you're still reminiscing on that person because they were a big part of your life. It’s like saying, “I’d be fine just going back to that night we broke up, just so I could see you crying, because I don’t even remember seeing it.”

BH– It’s about reminiscing on this person that was in your life and is no longer there, and making it a hopeless romantic type situation. I have a voice memo at the end of that song, and it’s our parents talking about their life together and the ups and downs of everything. At the end of the song, my dad’s saying, “Life is all about the decisions you make, especially when you’re with your partner– it’s about the decisions you made together. And my mom goes, “I like all the decisions that we made.” It’s about longing for something that wasn’t correct.

SH– It should be ok to let go. It’s ok to still think about somebody even though you know you’ll never get back together, even though you know it wasn’t right. Basically, it’s like, “I’m still thinking about you and if you wanted to try it, I could maybe consider it, but I probably shouldn't. But I would be down to just see you again.” There’s this back and forth of knowing that something isn’t for you, but still wanting it.

I Love My Girl, She’s My Boy (Someone always has your back)

BH– That song is about us.

SH– We’ve never really written a song about our story– it’s a fun story. I kind of surprised Brandon with what I was writing. He didn’t know what I was saying until we both had our headphones on. We clicked record and I had written all of these different paragraphs about our journey and how we got here. I felt like we just constantly were like, “We’re gonna try this, we’re gonna do this. Let’s do it.” We go for things together, even if only one of us wants it.

BH– There's so much in it that’s so real with what's happened in our lives. Back in the day, our dad had this storage room for all of his old stuff, and we would steal shit. We stole old iPods and USBs, we’d burn songs on the CDs and shit. Savannah’s really talking a lot about our childhood, but then it leads to talking about the album.

SH– A long time ago, we were playing pool with an ex and his friends, and I was on his team and everyone was doubting my pool skills, and I just popped the ball in the pocket and he was like, “Damn, I love my girl. She’s my boy.”

BH– I remember I looked at him and said, “We’re gonna name our first album that one day.” We kept it in our notes forever, but the time felt right. I think it’s cool we’ve been through a lot on our journey of this career. It’s not easy to do this, how we do it. We make our shit and we shoot our things and we create our things and in the shouts in the chorus, you can hear our desperation, it’s saying, “We’re not gonna give up. This is what we do.”

SH– It’s an homage to the whole album. That song is the finish line, and we’re looking back at what we had done, being like, “We tried it and we did it.”

BH– We felt that it’s ok to try. We tried. This song is literally about falling down, getting back up, figuring it out, and trying again. More often than not we’re scraping our knees. Using the band band aids.

It makes me think about how whenever we're obsessed with someone or really need this romantic love, we forget all the different types of love we have around us.

BH– It’s like, you have your best friend everywhere. I love my girl. She’s my boy. It’s our little moment of talking about our shit.

SH– It’s closing the book for sure.